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Fausto Carmona's comparison group pretty much sucks regardless of his age

Posted by Andy
Fausto Carmona, allegedly
Icon SMI
Apparently, Fausto Carmona, the 28-year-old pitcher for the Indians is actually Roberto Hernandez Heredia and is 31 years old.

His older age may explain why Carmona peaked during his Age 23 season, when Heredia was actually already 26.

Let's look at comps for Carmona at his listed age vs. his alleged real age.
Over the last 4 seasons, Carmona has pitched to an 81 ERA+ over 645 innings. Based on his listed age, those were his Age 24, 25, 26, and 27 seasons.

Here are pitchers who, for Ages 24-27 pitched at least 600 innings and had an ERA+ between 76 and 86:

Rk IP ERA+ From To G GS BB SO ERA Tm
1 Steve Arlin 670.1 85 1970 1973 110 100 305 416 3.95 SDP
2 Fausto Carmona 645.0 81 2008 2011 111 111 272 370 5.01 CLE
3 Zach Duke 664.1 85 2007 2010 112 111 172 330 4.90 PIT
4 Sammy Ellis 824.1 86 1965 1968 159 126 305 510 4.24 CIN-CAL
5 Dan Griner 608.1 84 1912 1915 120 75 184 219 3.60 STL
6 Jimmy Haynes 609.0 84 1997 2000 109 104 308 380 5.38 OAK-MIL
7 Russ Kemmerer 606.2 83 1957 1959 117 84 218 282 4.67 TOT-WSH
8 Lew Krausse 701.0 80 1967 1970 164 95 244 416 4.15 KCA-OAK-MIL
9 Randy Lerch 607.0 85 1979 1982 117 99 217 239 4.40 PHI-MIL-TOT
10 Art Mahaffey 651.1 83 1962 1965 123 99 243 406 4.34 PHI
11 Phil Ortega 754.0 84 1964 1967 136 119 263 438 3.96 LAD-WSA
12 Jim Pastorius 727.0 78 1906 1909 97 84 278 205 3.12 BRO
13 Doc Scanlan 644.2 85 1905 1907 88 76 292 314 3.09 BRO
14 Bill Steele 605.0 81 1911 1914 120 71 211 211 4.11 STL-TOT
15 Fred Talbot 627.2 80 1965 1968 131 96 255 330 4.10 KCA-TOT-NYY
16 Happy Townsend 773.2 81 1903 1906 107 83 263 330 3.37 WSH-CLE
17 Herm Wehmeier 628.1 84 1951 1954 137 78 311 270 4.78 CIN-TOT
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/19/2012.

Not exactly an inspiring bunch...Here's what these guys did for the rest of their careers after Age 27:

Rk From To Age G GS IP ERA ERA+ Tm
1 Steve Arlin 1974 1974 28-28 27 22 107.2 6.19 58 TOT
2 Zach Duke 2011 2011 28-28 21 9 76.2 4.93 80 ARI
3 Sammy Ellis 1969 1969 28-28 10 5 29.1 5.83 67 CHW
4 Dan Griner 1916 1918 28-30 15 6 65.1 2.48 113 STL-BRO
5 Jimmy Haynes 2001 2004 28-31 88 85 478.2 4.98 86 MIL-CIN
6 Russ Kemmerer 1960 1963 28-31 159 14 367.1 4.12 92 CHW-TOT-HOU
7 Lew Krausse 1971 1974 28-31 97 33 309.2 3.87 91 MIL-BOS-STL-ATL
8 Randy Lerch 1983 1986 28-31 67 9 129.2 5.14 70 TOT-SFG-PHI
9 Art Mahaffey 1966 1966 28-28 12 5 35.0 6.43 57 STL
10 Phil Ortega 1968 1969 28-29 36 16 123.2 5.31 56 WSA-CAL
11 Doc Scanlan 1909 1911 28-30 75 57 472.1 2.95 101 BRO
12 Fred Talbot 1969 1970 28-29 46 18 147.2 4.45 82 TOT-OAK
13 Herm Wehmeier 1955 1958 28-31 114 75 578.0 4.17 94 PHI-STL-TOT
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/19/2012.

Wow...not a lot of success here. None of these guys pitched past Age 31. Only Scanlan managed an ERA+ over 100 with 100 innings.

Now, let's look at Carmona's comps if he's actually 31 now, meaning that his last 4 years covered his Age 27 to Age 30 season. (Same criteria otherwise--at least 600 IP and ERA+ between 76 and 86):

Rk IP ERA+ From To G GS BB SO ERA Tm
1 Dick Bosman 674.2 82 1971 1974 118 106 194 329 4.16 WSA-TEX-TOT-CLE
2 Dave Bush 660.0 85 2007 2010 118 112 194 439 4.92 MIL
3 Don Carman 648.1 85 1987 1990 179 88 263 380 4.47 PHI
4 Ownie Carroll 610.2 78 1930 1933 113 75 179 136 4.73 TOT-CIN-BRO
5 Kevin Correia 607.0 80 2008 2011 113 104 214 400 4.88 SFG-SDP-PIT
6 Alex Ferguson 637.2 84 1924 1927 124 83 261 216 4.93 BOS-TOT-WSH-PHI
7 Jack Fisher 744.0 85 1966 1969 146 106 196 379 4.09 NYM-CHW-CIN
8 Chick Fraser 1107.0 85 1901 1904 140 128 403 438 3.73 PHA-PHI
9 Ross Grimsley 748.2 86 1977 1980 127 115 218 208 4.33 BAL-MON-TOT
10 Andy Hawkins 701.1 84 1987 1990 119 113 283 314 4.52 SDP-NYY
11 Tom Hughes 811.2 85 1906 1909 129 91 238 434 2.87 WSH
12 Jesse Jefferson 607.0 82 1976 1979 117 82 256 284 5.00 CHW-TOR
13 Si Johnson 603.2 83 1934 1937 128 81 197 216 4.80 CIN-TOT-STL
14 Dennis Martinez 726.2 82 1982 1985 139 115 232 327 4.88 BAL
15 Harry McIntire 991.2 84 1906 1909 139 114 349 362 2.92 BRO
16 Darren Oliver 618.2 84 1998 2001 108 108 247 359 5.63 TOT-STL-TEX
17 Mike Scott 667.2 84 1982 1985 128 110 229 356 4.11 NYM-HOU
18 Claude Willoughby 639.2 83 1926 1929 166 73 315 127 5.54 PHI
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/19/2012.

Now this looks like at least a somewhat better group of pitchers. Here's how they did for the rest of their careers from Age 31 onwards:

Rk From To Age G GS IP ERA ERA+ Tm
1 Dick Bosman 1975 1976 31-32 55 39 263.1 3.83 93 TOT-OAK
2 Dave Bush 2011 2011 31-31 17 3 37.1 5.79 78 TEX
3 Don Carman 1991 1992 31-32 30 0 38.1 5.40 72 CIN-TEX
4 Ownie Carroll 1934 1934 31-31 26 5 74.1 6.42 61 BRO
5 Alex Ferguson 1928 1929 31-32 42 25 149.1 6.63 68 PHI-TOT
6 Chick Fraser 1905 1909 31-35 119 97 874.1 2.76 100 BSN-CIN-CHC
7 Ross Grimsley 1982 1982 32-32 21 0 60.0 5.25 77 BAL
8 Andy Hawkins 1991 1991 31-31 19 17 89.2 5.52 71 TOT
9 Tom Hughes 1911 1913 32-34 101 65 548.2 3.48 93 WSH
10 Jesse Jefferson 1980 1981 31-32 56 24 205.1 4.65 87 TOT-CAL
11 Si Johnson 1938 1947 31-40 207 100 868.1 3.98 90 STL-PHI-TOT-BSN
12 Dennis Martinez 1986 1998 31-43 377 319 2231.1 3.34 119 TOT-MON-CLE-SEA-ATL
13 Harry McIntire 1910 1913 31-34 58 39 349.2 3.63 85 CHC-CIN
14 Darren Oliver 2002 2011 31-40 422 52 714.0 3.93 116 BOS-COL-TOT-NYM-LAA-TEX
15 Mike Scott 1986 1991 31-36 172 171 1183.1 3.07 117 HOU
16 Claude Willoughby 1930 1931 31-32 50 26 178.2 7.40 71 PHI-PIT
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/19/2012.

Yeah, that's somewhat better. Dennis Martinez and Mike Scott pitched a lot more innings at a good level, and Darren Oliver is still going strong. But there were plenty of flame-outs too, with more than half of these guys pitching no more than 2 more seasons.

The basic lesson here is garbage in, garbage out. There aren't too many pitchers to put up such a tough 4-year stretch and then discover a lot more success later.

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