That's incredibly sad--my thoughts go out to his family and to Cardinals fans.
I know that Raphy is writing some details about Forsch's career. Other than the multiple no-hitters, the thing that I always remember about Forsch's stats was how lucky he was to win 20 games in 1977.
Click through for the details.
Here are the lowest ERA+ values for a pitcher since 1950 to win at least 20 games while having fewer than 10 losses:
Rk | Player | W | L | Year | Age | Tm | G | GS | CG | SHO | GF | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Steve Carlton | 102 | 20 | 9 | 1971 | 26 | STL | 37 | 36 | 18 | 4 | 0 | 273.1 | 275 | 120 | 108 | 98 | 172 | 3.56 |
2 | Jack Morris | 102 | 21 | 6 | 1992 | 37 | TOR | 34 | 34 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 240.2 | 222 | 114 | 108 | 80 | 132 | 4.04 |
3 | Mike Cuellar | 105 | 24 | 8 | 1970 | 33 | BAL | 40 | 40 | 21 | 4 | 0 | 297.2 | 273 | 126 | 115 | 69 | 190 | 3.48 |
4 | John Burkett | 107 | 22 | 7 | 1993 | 28 | SFG | 34 | 34 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 231.2 | 224 | 100 | 94 | 40 | 145 | 3.65 |
5 | Bob Grim | 107 | 20 | 6 | 1954 | 24 | NYY | 37 | 20 | 8 | 1 | 8 | 199.0 | 175 | 78 | 72 | 85 | 108 | 3.26 |
6 | Tom Browning | 107 | 20 | 9 | 1985 | 25 | CIN | 38 | 38 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 261.1 | 242 | 111 | 103 | 73 | 155 | 3.55 |
7 | Catfish Hunter | 107 | 21 | 5 | 1973 | 27 | OAK | 36 | 36 | 11 | 3 | 0 | 256.1 | 222 | 105 | 95 | 69 | 124 | 3.34 |
8 | Bill Gullickson | 108 | 20 | 9 | 1991 | 32 | DET | 35 | 35 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 226.1 | 256 | 109 | 98 | 44 | 91 | 3.90 |
9 | Vic Raschi | 108 | 21 | 8 | 1950 | 31 | NYY | 33 | 32 | 17 | 2 | 1 | 256.2 | 232 | 120 | 114 | 116 | 155 | 4.00 |
10 | Mudcat Grant | 108 | 21 | 7 | 1965 | 29 | MIN | 41 | 39 | 14 | 6 | 0 | 270.1 | 252 | 107 | 99 | 61 | 142 | 3.30 |
11 | Bob Feller | 109 | 22 | 8 | 1951 | 32 | CLE | 33 | 32 | 16 | 4 | 1 | 249.2 | 239 | 105 | 97 | 95 | 111 | 3.50 |
12 | Vida Blue | 109 | 20 | 9 | 1973 | 23 | OAK | 37 | 37 | 13 | 4 | 0 | 263.2 | 214 | 108 | 96 | 105 | 158 | 3.28 |
13 | Rick Helling | 109 | 20 | 7 | 1998 | 27 | TEX | 33 | 33 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 216.1 | 209 | 109 | 106 | 78 | 164 | 4.41 |
14 | Jon Lieber | 109 | 20 | 6 | 2001 | 31 | CHC | 34 | 34 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 232.1 | 226 | 104 | 98 | 41 | 148 | 3.80 |
15 | Rick Sutcliffe | 109 | 20 | 6 | 1984 | 28 | TOT | 35 | 35 | 9 | 3 | 0 | 244.2 | 234 | 113 | 99 | 85 | 213 | 3.64 |
16 | Mike Cuellar | 109 | 20 | 9 | 1971 | 34 | BAL | 38 | 38 | 21 | 4 | 0 | 292.1 | 250 | 111 | 100 | 78 | 124 | 3.08 |
17 | Andy Pettitte | 110 | 21 | 8 | 2003 | 31 | NYY | 33 | 33 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 208.1 | 227 | 109 | 93 | 50 | 180 | 4.02 |
18 | Jack Sanford | 111 | 24 | 7 | 1962 | 33 | SFG | 39 | 38 | 13 | 2 | 1 | 265.1 | 233 | 110 | 101 | 92 | 147 | 3.43 |
19 | Jim Lonborg | 112 | 22 | 9 | 1967 | 25 | BOS | 39 | 39 | 15 | 2 | 0 | 273.1 | 228 | 102 | 96 | 83 | 246 | 3.16 |
20 | Bob Forsch | 112 | 20 | 7 | 1977 | 27 | STL | 35 | 35 | 8 | 2 | 0 | 217.1 | 210 | 97 | 84 | 69 | 95 | 3.48 |
21 | Dave Stewart | 112 | 21 | 9 | 1989 | 32 | OAK | 36 | 36 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 257.2 | 260 | 105 | 95 | 69 | 155 | 3.32 |
22 | Dave McNally | 112 | 20 | 7 | 1969 | 26 | BAL | 41 | 40 | 11 | 4 | 0 | 268.2 | 232 | 103 | 96 | 84 | 166 | 3.22 |
These are just about all really lucky seasons, in that the pitchers got a lot of run support or were the beneficiary of well above-average bullpen work.
That's not true for Jack Morris, of course...he just pitched to the score :)
Bob Forsch '77 -- specifically, his Strat-O-Matic card -- was Lesson 1 in my "hard-knocks" education that W-L records aren't all they seem.
ReplyDeleteCondolences to his family and friends, as well as the communities of the St. Louis Cardinals and the Billings, MT Mustangs.
I just looked it up---Forsch and Alou were both active in 1974 (Alou's last year and Forsch's first) but they did not face each other.
ReplyDeleteI remember the 1982 WS, as Whitey did in the ESPN story.
ReplyDeleteStrange . . . Billings, Montana is also where Dave McNally died. (See #22 in Andy's chart.)
ReplyDeleteStrange indeed. Before Forsch, only 14 major leaguers had died anywhere in Montana:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/MT_died.shtml
And 20 were born there:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/MT_born.shtml
@6
ReplyDeleteI just looked, B-R indicates 22 players born in Montana.
I hope I did not create the impression that Forsch had died in Montana; I only meant that he was last employed as the pitching coach for the Billings Mustangs.
ReplyDeleteAccording to news sources online, Forsch died at his home near Tampa, FL.
Forsch's Top 2 in similarity among pitchers are Paul Splittorff and Mike Flanagan. All three have died in the past 6 months.
ReplyDeleteAgain, my prayers are offerred to Mr. Forsch and his family.
ReplyDeleteMy "also" in #4 above implies that I thought Forsch died in Billings, Montana. That's misleading; I was only commenting on the unlikely connection of Billings to two 20-game winners. Sorry!
ReplyDeleteThese are just about all really lucky seasons, in that the pitchers got a lot of run support or were the beneficiary of well above-average bullpen work.
Or, we could add, really good defense, which helps explain the presence of Dave McNally ('69 Orioles) and Mike Cuéllar ('70 and '71 Orioles) on Andy's list. These were Frank Robinson's last three years in Baltimore, so I suspect McNally and Cuéllar received some pretty good run support too.
Fun stat: Cuéllar posted a career National League ERA of 2.97 (111 ERA+), with a W-L record of 42-41 (.506). His career AL ERA was 3.20 (109 ERA+), but his W-L record was 143-89 (.616). That's what going from the Al Spangler Astros to the Frank Robinson Orioles will do for your "ability" to win games.
No question good defense helped some of these guys, but that should be (mostly) accounted for in their ERA+, so good run support is still probably the major contributor to the W-L record.
ReplyDelete